Real Estate Negotiations Suck…
It’s been a long time since the last post huh?! Don’t worry I’ll be back to regular posting next week catching you up on all the good things that have been going on around our household, but in the meantime enjoy this update about our current real estate transaction. We’re in the midst of negotiations with our Houston house and what a cluster… I’ve gotten worked up over this for all of about 18 hours yesterday before I “let it go”.
Here’s a quick backstory.
The house didn’t get 1 showing the first 3 months. Lot of competition with new construction, and decent, but not amazing photos didn’t help. Then we got a few showings but it was still slow. When we moved our stuff out 3 weeks ago, we took new pictures and they came out great. We got about 10-12 showings after that and ended up with an offer. We began negotiating a price, then they read the disclosure and saw we treated the house for termites after they got into our front room (formal dining room). This is where the fun began!
Termites!
Prior to negotiating with our house, the potential buyers backed out of a deal because the seller lied about termite damage and some other water damage that came out in the home inspection. We’re talking major structural damage from termites and leaks. So of course, they were nervous about our house having had termites. We sent them all the paperwork we had with Orkin and explained where we saw the termites and the extent of “the damage” as we knew it. When we asked about looking behind the drywall for structural damage, Orkin recommended that we didn’t need to do that. The Orkin guys literally laughed at us and said, “Guys, this isn’t an infestation, this is you getting termites in your house. They haven’t been here long enough to warrant that sort of cost or do any structural damage. We’ve seen real infestations, and this is nothing…” So for us, the problem was settled. We repaired the small holes in the drywall where they came through during swarming and that was it.
These holes weren’t even big or extensive, I mean we’re talking essentially quarter to half dollar sized holes in a couple of spots in the upper corners of the dining room, towards the front of the house. I also touched up the holes Orkin made so they could treat every 12” along the floorboards, chair rail and crown molding around the 3 walls of the dining room. They drill thru the drywall inject chemicals, move over 12” and repeat. They also treated the room above it along the floorboards to be thorough. While they initially patched the holes, it wasn’t to my liking so I redid them. I patched them all up, retextured as needed and then repainted. Bada bing, bada boom!
Offer Accepted!
After they were appeased about the termites, they made a decent offer and want us to pay $4k in closing costs. We thought that was high so we countered with $1500 in closing and kept the house price the same. They have little cash to bring to the table to cover that so they countered with $3k in closing and added $3k to the house price to balance it out. Sure, that works for us so we accepted.
We entered the 10 day option period and they got the inspections and then the fun began… Because it’s an FHA loan the inspection was a bit more rigorous than usual. Not a big deal on our end because we maintained the house well and didn’t expect any big surprises. Most requests were mundane, 2 outlets aren’t grounded and need to be fixed, replace the water shutoff (on my to do list to get replaced if we hadn’t moved as it was pretty rust), some recommendations for roofing repairs we weren’t aware of, getting the AC serviced because the guy didn’t know how to turn it on. Seriously, he noted it had a 20 degree drop with the cooling side and it heated up to 120 degrees and noted it worked fine for his inspection but because he had trouble figuring out how to turn it on, we should get it serviced… That was about it, except for a small note stating, “in the dining room, soft spots in the drywall were noted indicating potential termite damage. This should be evaluated further by a professional.”
More Termites?!
You can imagine how they took that tidbit and ran with it. The husband wanted us to rip off all the drywall “to take a peek” and see what’s going on back there and confirm there’s no structural damage. Um, no. That was my stance and remains to be my stance. Why in the hell would we want to remove a lot of drywall, open ourselves up to who knows what might be found back there and put ourselves on the hook for whatever gets found? Not this guy.
We offered a compromise. Mrs. SSC researched how much it could cost to get drywall removed, replaced and retextured, repainted and put an estimate together for 200 sq ft. That should be enough to cover a peek, and we’d add in that money to the “repairs”. Another option we put forth was putting $2k into an escrow account that they could submit bills for and we’d cover those repairs after closing up to $2k. In the meantime, we scheduled a plumber and got the water main replaced. Then the buyers said that they’d rather have the $$ and do the repairs on their own after purchase, but they still want to open up the walls.
They also sent over a roofer that found an estimated $1400 worth of repairs and replacing “rotted decking” although he didn’t note where the decking was located, show pictures of “rotted decking” or define the extent of the decking that needed to be replaced. He didn’t even go in the house, so how did he find “rotted decking”? I don’t trust whoever put that report out and we debated about that cost as well. The original inspector never mentioned “rotted decking” and 4’ away was the closest picture he got to where he saw “damaged decking”. Yet the decking is covered with silver insulation on the underside of the decking inside of the attic, so you’d have to be right at a vent or some other place where the decking isn’t totally covered with insulation to see any damage. I don’t believe either one found “rotted decking” because neither provided pictures or specific locations, so that’s annoying. So we compromised to meet in the middle with the roofer costs.
However, we’re adamant about not opening up the walls and mentioned our $2k escrow offer which was more than double Mrs. SSC’s estimate for “taking a peek”. They would still rather have cash, and declined that offer. Instead they want to see the house one more time before the option period closes and “take a look”. We didn’t trust them to not mess with the walls so we sent our realtor out there with them. Plus, he could tell us where the “soft drywall” was located. After that trip we found out the soft drywall was nowhere near the termite damage, and was most likely a patch from the previous owner. We countered that we should remove the added in costs for drywall repairs ~$800 and then our realtor told us this…
$200 is a Big Deal…
We found out today, the reason the buyers have been dragging their feet is due to the husband trying to squeeze us for $200 more on the closing/repairs because he knows “we’re rich!” The wife just wants the house and doesn’t want to lose it, but the husband sees it as we have not one, but 2 houses and are living the dream! Well, he’s not far off, but really?! You’re going through all these negotiations squabbling over $200 on a house that’s costing you over $320k?! O…M…F…G… (The F is for well you can guess…)
Mrs. SSC wasn’t supposed to tell me because our realtor thought it would rile me up and well, he’s right. I said, “Great, let’s put the fridge for sale or see if our friend that has been checking on the house wants a free garage fridge… Or tell the buyers it will cost $300 if they want us to leave it there.” My “let it go” just grabbed it right back until Mrs. SSC reminded me I was being as petty as the buyer… Damn it, she was right… She also reminded me that it’s nice to be in a situation that $200 isn’t that big of a deal. Damn it, she’s right again…
We all know by now, Mrs. SSC is usually right which is why I’ll never have a “fight-o-meter” like The Groovies. She makes a good point that it is nice to not have to worry about $200. It’s also nice not being in a situation where you are going into a significant home purchase with 3.5% down and you don’t have much more cash to bring to the deal much less actually fix any repairs that were uncovered. That’s nothing compared to a co-worker that took out a 105% loan on a new house. Evidently, that’s when the mortgage company rolls the down payment into the mortgage for you. WHAT?! Yeah that’s a thing! Didn’t we learn our lesson about that kind of loan back in 2008?! Evidently not. Regardless, it’s nice not being in either of those situations. So I just remember to be appreciative of where we are financially. While I don’t want to get financially taken advantage of, I’d also rather not have this house as a liability anymore.
Summary
After the revisit to the house, the negotiations stopped. They wanted an extra $2k in “repairs” added to closing costs, rather than “being repaired”. No budging or concessions on the buyers part at all. This $2k amount was what we’d come up with for the original repairs, minus the plumbing as we just got that done and paid for it, and the compromise for the roofer. So they didn’t get an additional $200 out of us, they got an additional $800. What a pisser…
The $800 was our estimate for the termite drywall peek and repair which is now a moot point. However, we agreed to their concessions for a few reasons. It saves us $800 in “empty house insurance” which was coming due, it saves making another mortgage payment of $1900, and who knows what else could come up with a different buyer. While it’s not the most optimal outcome, pending their financials coming through, we’ll be divested of our Houston house in 14 more days! It’s one ‘yuge liability off our hands and gives us even more extra cash to put towards reupping our brokerage accounts, paying down the mortgage here, updates/remodels of our new house or a little of all 3 options. It’s nice to have options!
What are your thoughts? Were we being too demanding? Were we too giving on the financial perspective? I’d love to hear your take on it that since you’re not emotionally involved.
Gwen @ Fiery Millennials
August 13, 2018My blood pressure is rising just reading this!! Buyers are awful to deal with. I’m closing on the house Wednesday and the buyer wanted me to repair the chimney (that doesn’t even work), put insulation in the attic (that doesn’t have a speck of insulation anywhere else in the house) and make sure all the windows open and have screens and storm windows. They are original wooden windows and would need custom screens. HELL NO. I talked him out of all that crap but I still had to fix some stuff, trim some trees, pay closing costs, and cover 3% of his prepaids, so I’ll be out about $5k. I should still get a check for $5k though so that will be nice.
Mr SSC
August 14, 2018Man, they sure can be awful to deal with. You sounded like you’ve had some issues of your own dealing with buyers though. It’s not that I mind doing “normal stuff” or regular maintenance things that come up in the inspection, but the above and beyond items, like your buyer wanting screens on all the windows or additional stuff like that is just crazy. Where did these people learn to negotiate or did they ever? 🙂
Congrats on successfully dealing with your own tricky negotiations. Fingers crossed our buyer gets funded! 😀
Fervent Finance
August 13, 2018Sheesh. At least it’s sold. It’s nice that you had Mrs. SSC there to balance you out (I need that too). Sometimes I think I want to buy a house, and then I read stories like these… I think I’ll wait a little longer.
Mr SSC
August 14, 2018There’s still 13 days that something could go wrong, but yes, it’s all but sold. It definitely depends on the buyer as to how crazy the demands get. With our LA house, there wasn’t anything that came up in the report, minus some aesthetic and “old age” sort of comments and we’d maintained it so well, there weren’t any additional things we had to add. This house and these buyers… Sheesh… Good luck when you do venture into purchasing real estate!
Mrs. COD
August 13, 2018Boy, your story hits way too close to home! We don’t have a buyer yet, but have been in discussion with one potential buyer. They are also FHA buyers and being pretty picky about everything. If they don’t make an actual offer in the next couple days, we’re going to spend some money to repair/update some things and raise the price. People are so scared of house projects. We thought someone would love the location and be excited to renovate their own way, but three months on the market and nothing yet. Congrats and good luck with the rest of the process!
Mr SSC
August 14, 2018What a difference huh? Our current house needs some stuff updated and it wasn’t very well maintained or cleaned or ugh… Int he first 3 weeks, we’ve had the AC vents all cleaned out to get rid of dust, I’ve dusted who knows how many cobwebs, left over dust bunnies and more. Put up a load of solar film to reduce the “greenhouse effect” in a couple of rooms in the afternoon, and we just replaced the refridgerator(delivery in 2 weeks!) lol. I also cleared a ton of brush from the front and back of the property to aid in de-ticking, de-spidering, and generally de-bugging the area near the house. Pics will come in the next post.
Clearly we don’t mind a house that is a project, lol. You’re right a LOT of buyers don’t want to tackle things or have the time or skills to tackle things themselves which turns into extra $$ needed to spend on the house.
Good luck with your potential buyers and update/repairs if you go that route. Two mortgages is not fun…
Jason
August 13, 2018I don’t think you were too demanding. I mean I don’t understand the fight over $200. When we put an offer on one house, the seller wouldn’t split the difference on 5k. Just based upon the principle that he wouldn’t negotiate my wife said we should walk, we did and bought a house for 50k cheaper. And the guy had the house on the market for 3 more months and sold it for less than what we offered.
Mr SSC
August 14, 2018We had a couple of those experiences when we moved to Houston. We put in an offer on 2 different houses and for various seller negotiation related issues, we walked away from each of those houses. The first sold for $20k less almost 5 months later and the second, never sold and they just took it off the market after 6 more months. It’s crazy that people won’t negotiate or get stuck on “being cheap” versus being frugal. Our buyers, well the husband anyway, just seems to be cheap and was telling his realtor that “they own 2 houses, they must be rich! We can get them to go up another $200 on the repairs I bet. Let’s do that…” We had already added a buffer of almost 1.5x what our estimates came in just so they could use whatever contractor and it still get covered. Sheesh, some people. Makes me really happy not to be that tight on cash anymore though. What a relief that $200 on a house deal isn’t significant.
Congrats on getting a cheaper house on your end and sticking to your guns. 🙂
Freedom 40 Plan
August 14, 2018I feel like this story is a sad indictment against the typical American home buyer. They can only come up with 3.5% of the purchase price, barely have enough for closing costs, and lets face it,probably can barely afford the home. I wonder if they’ve given any thought to taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc.? Probably not.
What’s additionally frightening is the fact that as you mention, apparently the banks and the real estate industry as a while are continuing to make the same mistakes as those made in the past. unfortunately it shouldn’t be a shocker that the lessons weren’t learned.
In the end, I don’t think you gave up too much and I’m sure you’ll be happen to have the burden of this mortgage and this property off your own books. On to better things!
Mr SSC
August 20, 2018I’d agree that probably not is their worry about the hidden costs of home ownership. Quick update, their financing fell through because of some late payments that showed up on his credit report between pre-approval and getting the loan. They now needed more than the 3.5% to get a loan and guess who doesn’t have any extra money to put towards the down payment? those guys… The house is back on the market, and we’re still looking to sell it. bummer…
Revanche @ A Gai Shan Life
August 16, 2018Whew I would have had the same reaction as you, ESPECIALLY once the truth came out about the $200. Here’s the thing, though, it would have been his attitude. If he had said, we really need that extra $200, let’s see if they are willing to budge a bit to help us close this deal because maybe they’re able to, I would have been ok with it. But “(I assume) they’re rich, so I should squeeze them”? Ugh no. I would be so spiteful about not even selling them the house because bite me. I am not the Mrs SSC in this equation! 😀 😀
Then I would have been pissed at the realtor for not throwing $200 out of pocket to make the transaction close and the pain go away for the client (you), considering how much they’re making. I only have that extra expectation because I’ve had realtors who kept their eye on the ball and said they would cover any minor $300 and under costs, and realtors who bought us a home warranty out of pocket that we didn’t even know they were going to buy for us, etc. There isn’t just a buyer and seller in this equation, the realtor exists to ease the pain, why else are they getting paid so dang much?
By contrast when we sold, we had to fix a faucet for $200. When we bought, we didn’t ask for a single concession. It was just an offer, an acceptance, and signing the papers very soon after. But in our area, every house gets 10-12 offers within 4 days of showing, and all sales are at least 5-7% over asking. It’s a very different market!
Mr SSC
August 20, 2018I totally agree, had his attitude been better and they were like, hey we could really use and extra $200 or $500 to make this deal happen, could you work with us? Sure, no problem, let’s make this happen, would’ve been my attitude. Like you, once I found out about it, I was all, well, let’s get rid of the fridge. Should we sell the play structure, they don’t need a play structure. Burn it to the ground… lol
And yeah, there’s a lot to be upset about with this whole deal, especially now that they lost financing and kept it off the market the last full month of summer, those mother f*&^$ers…
Yeah, our area used to be like that, but with 4 new master planned communities being actively built up just north of us, the competition has gone increased a bit. So, why buy older when you can drive 15 more minutes and get new? personally, I don’t want to drive 30 extra minutes each day, but that’s just me, and not the typical Houston commuter mindset.
Mrwow
August 22, 2018Hmmm. real estate… Fun!! Fun like a kick in the crotch.
Enjoy!! Glad that was taken care of… and hoping to see you in a couple weeks.
Mr SSC
August 22, 2018Loads of fun! Especially now that it’s back on the market. Yay…. Those sons of bitches… Yep, I’m definitely not a real estate person, that’s for sure. 🙂